SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Aesthetic Report, a podcast for skincare professionals who want to grow in their careers by hearing directly from the individuals who have been there, done that, and are paving the future of their industry. Join us for the latest in all things skincare, beauty, wellness, business, and more. From interviews with leading experts to the burning topics on your mind. The Aesthetic Report starts now.

SPEAKER_02: 0:34

Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome to the Aesthetic Report, a podcast by Dermoscope. I am your host, AIA President and Director of Education, Michelle Deallard Brenner. And as so many of you know, the Aesthetic Report is for skincare professionals just like you, who want to learn more about how to make it in the industry by hearing straight from our number one industry leaders with the best one-on-one interviews about the latest dish on all things professional skincare. And this episode's guests are no stranger to the Aesthetic Report. As a matter of fact, there would be no Dermoscope podcast without these two amazing ladies. It's our publisher and CEO, Amanda Strunk, and managing editor and podcast producer Dorian Rays. Hello, ladies. Hi. How are you doing? Wait, a little more enthusiasm. Come on now. It's way too early. Wait, wait, wait too early. I'm just kidding. We're great. I'm great. I'm great. And this is, you know, this is going to be a great episode because we do this, as you guys know, two times a month. And nobody gets to hear from you guys who make me play all those awful games.

SPEAKER_01: 1:49

Okay, I think we should just start right there. Maybe just rip this band-aid off and talk about the game. I know that that's probably not in your notes what to talk about, but um, you know, I think that the the idea with the podcast in general, whenever you know, we were coming up with this, and this was several years ago, I know we're on our fifth season now, which has been just a fun milestone of its own. But yeah, with the games, I think I think that we just wanted to be able to add a little bit of a fun aspect that estheticians don't ever get to see from the leaders of the industry whenever they're on the main stages and whenever they're talking and they're lecturing and things like that. So, not that I'm gonna defend my persistent requirement of you to play games, but I'm gonna go ahead and defend myself there and say, I think it's fun and I smile every time I listen to you interview somebody and then you do a game.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

Well, you know, it's actually funny. And I say to so many of our guests, I really don't mind playing because I don't have to play. I have to make them play, so it's not so bad. And it's funny too, because Dorian and I will like chat right afterwards. And you know what, Amanda? Sometimes they nail it. They're like, oh, and it's like bam, bam, bam. And there have been a few guests that just totally bombed. And it really, it's actually fun. And you know what? I think that the best part is they they laugh too. They laugh about it too and enjoy it. So you're 100% right. You're 100% right.

SPEAKER_01: 3:14

All right, well, just between me and you off the record. No, I'm just kidding. Which one of them? Oh, you can hear it.

SPEAKER_02: 3:22

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. So, ladies, um, this is like this issue coming up for November is really huge. This is a big year. Turning 50. I know, I mean, Amanda and Dorian, you guys aren't turning 50, but turning 50 was a big deal. I remember turning 50 and I dreaded it my whole entire time. It was like the worst thing ever until about four weeks before my birthday, I decided I was gonna throw myself a birthday party. It was the best birthday party I ever had in my whole entire life. It was so great.

SPEAKER_01: 3:57

That makes so much sense too. I think that once you just kind of accept it, isn't that funny though, with us? I maybe it's just women, but when it's our age, it's like the higher the number, the you're like, oh no. But when it comes to business, it's the exact opposite, and you get celebrated and you know, just for enduring all this, it's like, hey, I've endured 50 years of my personal life out here too. We can be celebrating that as well, you know? But yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02: 4:20

That's right. So the November issue is officially here and Dermoscope special 50th anniversary edition. I mean, I guess for both of you, but how does it feel finally holding that milestone in your hands? I mean, Amanda, you first, because you pulled us here, but you had you had a team behind you and Dorian right by your side. How does that feel?

SPEAKER_01: 4:42

I think it's overwhelming at first, you know, when you talk about it. I think just realizing and recognizing our authority in the industry and the presence that we have and just the the milestone of just making it this far. And I don't think that that's really an easy feat for 50 years when it comes to publishing in print and you know, being in this industry, you know, and we've had to stay with the times and to grow with our audience. And that didn't always mean for us, at least it didn't mean getting rid of print ever. We've always grown steadily, and that's always been our largest achievement and our biggest success, and it's where we started, you know, back in the 70s. But since then, we've grown and done lots of other growth channels, lots of other platforms that we've had, just like the aesthetic report this podcast. And so I think it's been fun throughout all the years just to see it grow and evolve. And I think that the November issue is just a really good reflection and representation of that.

SPEAKER_03: 5:39

Absolutely. Dorian, I had so much fun putting together the November issue. It was, I was never in yearbook, so but I imagine it would be something very similar to that. I don't know. And I learned a lot of things from Dermoscope, and you think I've been here for five years, and I'm like, I got the gist of it. And then you're diving into the archives and you're like, oh, I had no idea. Oh, okay, that makes more sense now, like giving context and like that's where that, or that's where so and so fits in. So it was fun that way. And then when I first started, I came in smack dab in the middle of our 45th anniversary, which was COVID, and we still tried to make the most out of it and did our Zoom party, and we had our very, I think the November 2020 issue was like one of the first magazines where I was like, I know what's going on here. Like, okay. Like just like floating out in space. So then to now see this one, and we have we've actually got to execute it in the way that we wanted to. It's really fabulous, I would say. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

I will say, you know, you bring up Doreen, you bring up a great perspective, but our 50th anniversary, I think a lot of this, a little bit, is kind of left over from our 45th celebration, you know. And whenever I had taken over, that was a couple of years before the 45th. And so for me, the 45th anniversary was something that I wanted to kind of do and put my own spin on, and I wanted to celebrate us. And, you know, we had all these anniversary packages and ways that we could highlight brands and ways that we were gonna do promotions and things for the readers, and we had this whole plan. And then COVID hit. And then from there, it was during the summer. That's whenever we hired Dorian. And so, yeah, I always also tell my staff, anybody that comes on for the magazine, it definitely takes two or three magazines, two or three issues to really even get the hang of understanding what we're talking about, what we're doing. So, yeah, it completely makes sense that for Dorian. And it was November of 2020, which was our 45th anniversary issue. Yeah, I think that we definitely, I wouldn't say came full circle, but there were definitely a few things that we didn't get to really do in our 45th because of COVID. And I think that we got to to do that a little bit more this time.

SPEAKER_02: 7:50

You know, you you both make a really good point and that shift. Amanda, I remember that. I remember that with you and think about, you know, all the things planned for advertising, and then all of a sudden there's no business and you know, aestheticians aren't working, and it was just just such a bizarre time in so many different ways. But I mean, that was talk about having to pivot super quickly and and at the same time continue on with all right, now what are we gonna do and how are we gonna do that? And I mean, kudos to you. You had a couple years under your wings, and it was like boom, here, here we go. Oh my gosh, one of those, those last minutes. And now we're we're looking at the 50th, and just the evolution in those five years is is amazing. It's really been it's really been tremendous. So tell me about the party. I want to talk about the party. See, and I'm like I said, I had the best party I ever had for myself at 50. I think you did the same thing. So the golden gala, the first in-person dermoscope event under your leadership, which you know what? It's almost like everything happens for a reason. There was a reason 45 didn't happen, so that 50 could. What was that vibe and that energy like walking into that room?

SPEAKER_01: 9:09

I think it was the most fun party ever, but don't all hosts kind of feel that way. I mean, it's kind of the same way with your wedding, right? You're like, it's the best night ever. Right. You realize that's because there's hundreds of people coming to celebrate me, you know? It's like everybody's gonna at some point you have to acknowledge, like, that's why it's fun. But so a little bit of that, like just having so many people come and so celebrate Dermoscope and what Dermoscope has meant for them in their professional journey in this industry, and you know, just to be able to have all of the different brands that we work with come and support us and to show us that support. And we feel like as a magazine, that's really what we're here to do is to support the industry and to be there for the industry and to help grow these brands into making larger names for themselves. And same things with estheticians, you know. But at the end of the day, that that's our goal is to grow the industry, raise the bar. And and yeah, so it was just it was I don't even know what word to say. Maybe Dorian, she's she's the editor, she'll have better words for it. But it was just, it was overwhelming again, just to have so much support and to see all of these people, you know, and that I've grown up with too. You know, we were talking just a minute ago about like how long have we known each other now? And it's kind of the same thing. I remember that night, like looking around the room and just realizing like some of my oldest friends and colleagues, you know, were in that room and they were there to support us, to support Dermoscope. And so it meant the world to me. It was one of the best nights of my professional career completely. And I'm definitely gonna find an excuse for why we need a 51st anniversary next year for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 10:41

It was great. That's awesome. I would say obviously that's everything that Amanda said, but just like the feel of it, it because we framed it around IECSC Las Vegas because we know that that was the best way to get everybody kind of in the room, you know. But attending IECSC over these past few years, you become accustomed to the different brand parties that get hosted throughout the weekend. So I just we really wanted to differentiate between this, isn't just like a product launch, or like this isn't just, oh, let's meet up in Vegas because there's a lot of our accounts that are gonna be there. We really wanted it to feel celebratory and very glamorous. We did black tie, we put on our fancy gowns, like we sent out physical invitations, which is, you know, if it's again not a wedding, who does that? But we did it. And I I think we, to the best of our ability, you know, us pretty green to it, pulled off what we wanted to pull off. So it was it was fulfilling and seeing everyone there and meet. I met so many people that I've only emailed for like five years and finally like, oh like Michelle, I've still never met you in person. Oh my gosh, y'all are kidding.

SPEAKER_02: 11:51

No, I've never met Michelle in person. No. No, no, it's like we know each other. I mean, we've been together, we've been together five years, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 11:58

Um I don't know if you've noticed, but now we can say online relationships really do work.

SPEAKER_02: 12:07

See this? They do. They do, yeah. It's a Dorian. I also understand that sort of the theme behind the party was based off of one of your favorite films.

SPEAKER_03: 12:17

It was, yeah. Casino. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 12:22

That is awesome. And Amanda, did you know that or did she sneak that in there without you knowing?

SPEAKER_01: 12:28

You know, maybe we shouldn't talk about how much Dorian sneaks in without me knowing, just in general. Next session. No, I'm just kidding. No, I definitely know Dorian's love affair with well, I wouldn't say pop culture, but she definitely has a love affair for for certain things. And I think I remember her maybe saying something about it, but it when you said it off the top of my head, it it just it does click. It makes sense. Like completely.

SPEAKER_03: 12:52

Yeah. When we were talking about everything, and I was like, I want it to feel old school. I want it to feel, you know, I probably was never like, you know, like the movie casino, because I know that eventually she'd be like, no, I don't know what you're talking about, and let's move on. So it's like, no, like let's do Crap Pack, let's do gold, let's do showgirls. Like, I want it to feel like a young Robert DeNeu is gonna walk in.

SPEAKER_01: 13:12

I think Dorian and I also, you know, and we had uh more of our like creative meetings before what we wanted this to feel like. And then I remember I I wanted it to be a black tie event. And I remember everybody was like, but it's Vegas. Nobody's gonna take like a big ball ground in their carry-on luggage. And I'm like, Oh, they will. Yes, they will. They sure will because I'm making it black tie because I that's just that was the vibe I wanted it to be. You know, I wanted it to be special. I didn't want it to be some cocktail party in Vegas, I wanted it to be a special black tie party that that celebrated us. And I think I think that we did it. I think casino, there you go, wrap it up. That's exactly the vibe. There you go.

SPEAKER_03: 13:50

Minus like the murder and like tearing and extorting. I'll just say it was vague, you know, but in terms of just our party, yes, Christian. But the glamorous, yes, yes. It was very much casino. Martin Scorsese would be proud. He would, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 14:03

So I understand the whole team came together to pull this event off. But the whole night was made possible by your administrative assistant, Deja Heath, who couldn't make the celebration. So did you feel her presence there? Was there something in particular that stuck out that just you knew she was there with you?

SPEAKER_01: 14:22

A couple of things. First, a minute ago, whenever you asked me what it's like just to be celebrating the 50th. And I think the first thing I always go to is, and I know it sounds so typical, but it's like, this would not be possible without our team, you know, and it's like the no matter who you see up on that stage, it's not just that person, it's that person filled with about 10 or 100 women behind her. You know what I mean? Yes, most definitely like Deja was one of the ones in lead of this whole project, making sure that she was staying on top of my tail, trying to get answers from me and make sure that the checks were written and the stuff was organized and all that stuff. And I know she was having to stay on top of Dorian too, with you know, making sure the the whole casino vibe was gonna go off without a hitch. And so I think definitely we could not have done this without her. And that that there you go. That's why I'm having a 50 burst because they just gotta come to this one.

SPEAKER_02: 15:14

There you go. There you go. So, besides the party, how did the celebrations evolve issue to issue throughout 2025? Was there a consistent link or a connection between each issue that kind of brought us to November?

SPEAKER_03: 15:30

Yes, yeah, there was in more issues than others, but we actually implemented a department called History Lesson, which kind of was like a precursor, I would say, to the November issue, where I went through different AIA legends and I kind of read through their story and kind of pulled like headlines. So I think we did like the invention of the term day spa. And so we spotlit Katherine Adson because she's coined that phrase. And we did, I think, a few on like the coining of skincare and everything. So it was just kind of a way to explore our history while giving a tidbit information of like, did you know that these people came before you? And that's the reason the industry is the way that it is. So that was one way that we did it. And then in the majority of, I would say the majority of the issues, not all the issues, we had sponsors for the issue, and sometimes included the cover, sometimes just an interior story. So, you know, thanks to a lot of these brands that were there to support us all year long, we were able to make it very special and something like we've never done before. So, of course, I want to thank X Arcadia and Face Reality and Skin Blends and Alexandria Professional and Pavonia and SkinScript and everybody else. It was amazing to work because I'd worked so closely with so many teams and it was a learning experience, but it was also like really great to see how other teams work and how other brands and everyone put their spin on our cover. And it's still our cover, right? Because that's that's our baby, but it very much was a collaboration and it did make it feel really special. And you know, it's it's something that I would never want to do all the time, but I'm really glad that we did it for things that year.

SPEAKER_02: 17:17

Well, you know what's really great about it, and I mean, listening to what you're both saying too, and then watching all of this and also having been in the industry as long as I've been in the industry, there's years and years and years of companies, of products, of people, of professionals, of just everything in our industry that collaborated together and continue to. That doesn't happen in a lot of professions. You know what I mean? There's it people start to diversify or things dramatically change in what was good, you know, in the 70s, isn't in the 80s. But the evolution of everyone in this profession is really an amazing feat as a group and a profession together. It's a very cohesive unit, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

I think so too. And I think that, you know, for those of us that have been in the industry for a very long time, then we can kind of see how really of a close-knit community this industry is. And I think that that is something that makes it much more enjoyable to be in, you know, and just being able to kind of grow up and grow with all of these other professionals and yeah, just see how far we've all come and see how far with everybody's help the bar's been raised a little bit more every year.

unknown: 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:32

Dorian so as you talked, we talked about, you know, month to month, each issue kind of growing into this. And you, you know, you talked about what makes it so special, but what should readers be looking for in the November issue? What is like gonna jump out at people or should jump out at people?

SPEAKER_03: 18:48

Should jump out. I had a really fun time putting together our legends hall, kind of like a walkthrough. We didn't showcase all of our AI legends because there's so many, but I got to handpick a few. And I think it's really fun. If you read through those stories, there have been amazing people that have been in this industry and that have have done so much. Like Eve Taylor is dame Eve Taylor, like knighted by, you know, the like she's British royalty adjacency. Like, that is amazing. And she did so because of her contribution to business in the spa industry. It's just little things like that, or like Dr. Peter Baglis opened up one of the first methadone clinics in the 60s in Pennsylvania. Like, how like you would never be like, oh, Circadia, oh, of course, you know, methadone clinics and I remember that. No, like that's amazing. Like, it's just crazy things. And then, of course, we we got to spotlight you, Michelle. So that was exciting. And I have read your cover story before. I was just wondering, I was like, does Michelle know she's in the November issue? She is yes, we got to put your old cover and everything and just kind of I got to walk through it, and you've had an amazing career. You're an educator at heart, and it's not like you have the typical, like, oh, I had acne and I went to an estetician and she fixed it. Like, no, you were like, I kind of fell into this and I didn't know if it was gonna work, but I made it work, and that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 20:10

It's a it's a great profession. Well, I mean, we I think I think we're all pretty blessed at the opportunities that the profession provides. There's because there's so many out there. So when we look at that too, Amanda, I mean, what does this milestone mean to you personally as the publisher and as someone carrying on the strunk legacy? I mean, your mom and dad are just like, you know how I feel about them. And for our listeners that are listening, I mean, they are two of my favorite people in my whole entire life. I mean, if it weren't for them, none of us would be here right now.

SPEAKER_01: 20:43

I mean, at first, I don't, you know, this isn't just my job. It I feel like it's kind of it isn't partially, you know, my family's legacy and it and it's my family's fingerprints pressed into the industry and the history of it. And then it's kind of my turn and what am I gonna do with it and where are we gonna go from here? You know, and you and I have talked about this personally several times, I'm sure, because I've called and leaned on you a couple of times, like, what is what is going on? But I think that, you know, whenever you kind of take over and you're at the helm of something big and and it's weighty, you know, and and you realize the importance and the legacy and kind of what you have in your hands and gotta be careful with it. You know, I think for me it was everything just changed and became fun again when I realized like it was just a it was a mindset shift, you know, because all growing up, I've been in this industry 20 years, and it feels like the first half of that was really just me training, learning, growing myself into this industry. And then, you know, on this latter half, it's been more of me being in charge and taking control of Dermoscope and figuring out where we want it to go. And I think that it took a little bit of that mental shift for me to go from just you know being a part of Dermoscope and an employee of Dermoscope to being the owner of Dermoscope, and that was a little bit of a mindset thing that I had to shift on. And like I said, I yeah, I know you and I have talked about this, but you know, whenever you and you take over something, I think that you always look at them, you know, and and you see like how did they do it? How did they make this successful? Why do others respect them? Where did they do it right? Where did they do it wrong? And I think for a little bit, I kind of got so caught up in that of because who knows my dad better than you know, I've lived with him, you know, and I know what he's like and I know what pisses him off, and I know, you know, I know how he thinks. And I think that's the thing. I know how my dad thinks, and I know the whys behind his decisions. And so for there was a little bit, there was like a year, year and a half where I was kind of in my own head and I was like, I don't know how I'm going to fill his shoes. I just don't know how I'm gonna do it. He commands the room, he makes friends with everybody, he has an answer for everything. He's vulnerable enough without, you know, showing all of his cars. Like he's got all these great qualities in business. And then I think one day, just like the light flipped on in my head, and I realized, like, I don't have to fill his shoes. I have my own shoes and I can make my own path. I think that's true with anybody, you know, in in your business and you're trying to grow. I think it's just recognizing that we are all individuals and we're all unique and we're all gonna make our own mistakes or our own decisions or whatever. And it's just how we grow and where we go from there. And uh, I'm pretty proud of myself over these last few years. I think Dermoscope's been doing really great, you know, going with the changes and growing. And again, I it would not be here if not for my team. And uh it's just been it's been the best 50 years of my life, Michelle.

SPEAKER_03: 23:42

I've never worked with Will, so I never got to see the position. So it's so crazy. Like, I can't picture Amanda not running dermoscope. Like when she tells me, like, well, it used to be like this, and I'm like, really? How is that like this? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:56

Well, I try to explain to Dorian, I was like, you know, because sometimes they'll, you know, the girls will give me a little bit of a hard time every while someone, and I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you have no idea how easy you've got it. Otherwise you're for a seven-hour lecture about the why behind, like, you want to know how I know the whys behind everything. Because I said through those seven-hour lectures on every single topic about why you don't change for the sake of change and you keep the department in there, blah blah blah. I mean, there's reasons for everything. But anyway, did that answer your? I think we got the point.

SPEAKER_02: 24:24

No, it's no, it it did answer my question. And I, you know, aside from you and your brother and obviously your mom, I mean, I think I know your dad pretty darn well. And he thinks I have gone through many of those lectures myself. But I, you know what, here's a couple of things. And for all of our listeners that are out there that haven't been around long enough to know your dad, first of all, you have a lot of his traits. You have a lot of his traits. But your father has some very unique traits that you know what more human beings should have. He is by far one of the most honest individuals I've ever met in my whole entire life. Whether you want to hear it or not, he's honest with you. And I think that's really important. He doesn't try to tell you something to make you feel better or do something to make it better. He's truly one of the most straightforward, honest people I've ever met my whole entire life. He is also one of the most selfless individuals I've ever met in my life. To a fault. Yep. 100%. He'll do anything for anyone. He's just amazing, kind-hearted, and he really truly wants to make a difference for other people and wants to raise other people up and make things better for their lives and their individual days. And Amanda, you have a lot of those qualities, and a lot of that you have continued to carry through with Dermoscope. But those are all things that I mean, your dad is is just a special human being. He he truly is. And I think he he's touched a lot of people, and he did touch a lot of people. And I wish more there were more people like that that were out there would be really cool. But you have a lot of those traits, and you have taken those. You truly do. I've I've watched it over the last, it's been what, almost seven years now. I've watched it, and you know what? You've created it with your team of people, you've created with the relationships that you've built for the magazine, and the success in the seven years, especially with COVID, is mind-boggling. I'm honestly like so proud of you. So proud.

SPEAKER_01: 26:42

I know it sounds like a maternal thing, but no, no. Well, I I it means a lot. I appreciate it. Thank you for saying it.

SPEAKER_02: 26:49

Absolutely. Okay, so here's a great question. This, Amanda, is a you question, but only because you might kind of, if you could go back to 1975 dermoscope, what would you tell the team that things would be like back then? Well, like what one thing would be that, oh, okay, here's the home purpose.

SPEAKER_01: 27:13

I know where my mind would go. Yeah, I think I would say that the internet is coming and be ready. I think I would tell, I think I would tell the tell the employees from 75, like, this is going to change the industry. This is going to grow it rapidly, like buckle up buttercup and be ready. Yeah. I think that if they from 1975 could realize like just the world that they were about to start growing and they were paving the path for all of us. And I don't know that I would tell them that how important that was, you know, not don't want to put all the weight of that on their shoulders, but I think I would tell them something about like understanding the future and understanding how you know this is going to turn into such a multi-platform and and just to to be prepared for that. Yeah. What a big change.

SPEAKER_02: 28:03

You know what, Amanda, you make a really interesting point because we all get oftentimes so caught up and streamlined in our environment. So that that is a good point. But to take it back to the comment you also made about growing up in Dermoscope. When you're not outside of it and you're born and raised in it, and that's all you know, it really takes a lot to step outside and look at it all as a spectator and get a different perspective on it. Because you know what, you're 100% right. Just because this is the way we're doing things doesn't mean this is how we're always gonna do it, because times change so much. I mean, I even see it with with my school, you know, you get so stuck within the daily happenings of things. That sometimes you just gotta step back from the outside and look at it completely different. And you also realize the impact that you've had. And that had to be one of those things walking into that 50th party of realizing, oh my God, all of these people are here for me. Look at the impact we've had.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that you're right. I mean, it's like that with anything, right? Like even in relationships, it's sometimes you have to take a step back and get outside because it gets emotional. And I think emotions are what cloud up a lot of our decisions and can kind of shift our decisions. And so, and that's true in any type of relationship and especially in business. And I think in business, your emotions are more involved than you like to admit or realize. And so I think it is so it's excruciatingly important to be able to remove yourself short term, like temporarily, like in that moment, take yourself out and to look at it. Um, my dad actually used to always have this glass globe, and it was like a paperweight. I'm sure you just know the story. All right, I'm gonna look at Dorian and tell her this story. No, you haven't heard this story. I'd like to hear the story. So my dad used to always have this paperweight and it was this solid glass. It was like a globe, but it was clear. And then the continents were like the frosted part. Anyway, so he'd always have this paperweight on his desk. And that ever since I've ever been in his office. And what's funny is by the time he ended up leaving, I think he had bought a globe paperweight for almost every single person's desk because there was always a scenario or something going on where he used it as kind of a teaching moment and taught him her his perspective. And then to remind them, to remind them of that message and of that lesson, then he would buy them that paperweight and put it on their desk too. So anyway, so now I think I'm the only one that has a paperweight globe at the office on my desk. I didn't really take forward that tradition of teaching the employees that. But yeah, that's basically what the globe was. It was Michelle and you and I are talking, and we're sitting across the desk, you know, trying to make this business decisions together or do whatever. And there's this globe in front of us. And you're looking at Asia, and I'm looking at North America. And we can both be talking about the world, and we can both be talking about this globe. But you have such a different perspective, and all you can see is this side of the world, and all I can see is this side. And all it takes is just one percent shift in our mindset for us to change and go, oh, wait, you know, and then you don't have to be like so stuck on your perspective. You can realize there's 360 perspectives, you know, there's a bunch of different ways around this. And it makes it so much easier to work with your employees or work with any like any business relationship when you can take yourself out of the situation just momentarily and look at it from the other person's point of view.

unknown: 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:45

I love I love that story. And I I have heard that story, and I've gotten lots of lessons, quite honestly, as well as well. But, you know, but that is truly something that I I learned in my whole entire life. And, you know, for all of our listeners that are listening, I hope that, you know, they stop this podcast and and back up to what you just said a couple times over and over and over again. Because we started to become very self-centered and opinionated and to just take a step back, to listen to other people's perspectives, to have open conversations. We can all disagree about things. We can all think differently about things, we can all believe what we want to believe and still all move forward together. And then when you when you look at our profession, it's a great way to look at our profession. There's so many opportunities, so many different ways to look at things. And at the same time, so many people that can be there to support you.

SPEAKER_01: 32:45

Yes, I agree. I think that it's, I mean, it's like that with anything. It's it's just your mindset. And I think that I think that's where a lot of these other good qualities that you're talking about, my dad come from too. And and at the end of the day, I think it's just being able to be in business and to be able to take your emotions out of it sometimes. I think maybe that's the other thing that I would say that's a little bit different from me than my dad. I think that emotions are also what drive us and what make us passionate about our work. And it's what keeps us involved for 20 years or 35 in some cases. You know, it's it's what keeps us around. And so I'm definitely not saying that my message is just to take emotions out of it and, you know, no hard feelings, it's just business. Like, no, like that's not it at all. Like it's extremely personal, you know what I mean? Yeah. Business is personal to me. It's my life and it's I love it and it's my passion. So again, I know we're off topic, but yeah. No, that's my two cents on that. Still learning that one.

SPEAKER_02: 33:42

We're here for you, Dorian. We will support you in any way that you'd like. Did you know that Dermascope is celebrating 50 years this year? Founded in 1975, Dermoscope has been bringing skin professionals the best in continuing education for half a century, with more to come. Follow us on social media at Dermascope on all platforms. Subscribe to the print magazine at www.dermoscope.com backslash subscribe. And tune in to the aesthetic report, weekly to stay in the know on our semiciennial calendar. Celebrate 50 years with Dermoscope in 2025 and join us as we usher in 50 more of the best generic non-branded education in the industry. But what about the magazine, the industry, and even yourself in this business? Did you learn in this process? I'm not as flexible as I thought I was.

SPEAKER_03: 34:57

Because I do think that I am pretty, I think I'm pretty easygoing. I think I'm like, yeah, sure, like no sweat off my back, you know. But this year has taught me that I'm like, oh no, you you are a little rigid when it comes to certain things and you need to lay down sometimes and just let it happen because it's too hard to fight. And sometimes it's like not even great for the for the big picture, right? Like just because you want to protect the integrity of what you think you're protecting, right? Like it's just you have to look at things in the bigger perspective. So yeah, that's I learned that about myself this year.

SPEAKER_02: 35:34

Yeah. Yeah. It's like you got to step outside of yourself for a little bit and just just take a look in. I remember having, it wasn't really an argument, but it kind of turned into one. I remember saying to my husband, he said to me, Why do you not agree with me? He goes, You always have to pick a different way of looking at it. And I said to him, I'm giving you the opportunity to look at things from a different perspective. I was like dead serious. I meant it in like the kindest of ways. He was furious with me. He was angry. That's exactly what he was mortified. He was so upset with me for saying that. I'm like, why are you upset? I meant it. He goes, That's my point. You meant it. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01: 36:22

I always say the same thing too, though. It's like, I'm I don't disagree with you. Like, because people will be like, you know, after five, 10 minutes, and they're like, wait, you don't even agree with that? And I'm like, well, no, but you were so staunchly like hardcore on your side that I had to argue the other side. I don't agree with the other side, but I had to show you that you're not right. Doesn't mean that I I don't care. I'm I'm out of it. I just wanted to show you a different perspective. And it's like just sometimes you just gotta learn, like, doesn't matter. Devil advocate.

SPEAKER_03: 36:48

Both of you, you guys love devil's advocate.

SPEAKER_01: 36:51

Yes, yes. And that's all I always say. It's like, I'm not an optimist or a pessimist. Like, I just I'm gonna have whatever view you don't have because again, I think that globe thing is like so hardcore ingrained in me where it's like, no, I'm gonna walk around this entire globe and I'm gonna know every single angle of it.

SPEAKER_02: 37:06

So anything's 100% your father.

SPEAKER_01: 37:09

100%. I know, I know. So yeah, I think that that's where I get my argumentative qualities from, is because I I think what it is is I'm just trying to poke holes or see if holes can be poked. And if not, then I can really back you up and I can support that. But if I come at it just with the opposite side, you know, with like the most very common arguments from the opposite side and you can't even defend those, then it's wail.

unknown: 37:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 37:35

Wheel. Yeah, you know, like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 37:38

So Amanda, what's next? I mean, after this year of golden celebrations, how how do you what's next? How are you gonna top this?

SPEAKER_01: 37:47

I think I'm just gonna retire.

SPEAKER_02: 37:52

You're too young to retire. Child retiree.

SPEAKER_01: 37:58

I won, I won an award for the youngest non-esthetician in the industry to retire in the industry. What's next for Dermoscope? Uh, I mean, I don't want to give away quite everything yet, but we definitely are going, we're going to change a little bit in terms of what you've been seeing all year for the 50th. I mean, we went all out. We are, I think we are out of gold confetti. So you will definitely see us going more back to what year is this? I don't know. Whatever the year is before this one, back to year 48, 49. Like you're gonna see more content from that. Not content, but more of that editorial, like just heavy focus and advanced education and things like that. Um, not as many things to celebrate. And obviously, we're still going to be celebrating others in the industry. And what's crazy is I remember noticing this at the 45th anniversary, but there's a lot of companies and brands that are either one year ahead or one year behind in their own celebrations. You know, like I just went to an event and face reality is celebrating their 20th anniversary. And I think there are several next year that are also celebrating big milestones. So we're just gonna go back to doing that, celebrating others and bringing as much advanced continuing education as we can and and uh reaching as many professionals in this industry that that we can to make a difference.

SPEAKER_03: 39:19

More practicality, I think, is a way less celebratory, more practicality.

SPEAKER_02: 39:25

Well, and Dorian, you know what, you make a good point. And I know, you know, in other podcasts we've had this conversation and we've all had this conversation. It's almost like kind of going full circle and back to basics again. And you know what, and there's there's so many professionals, whether they're brand new to the profession or you know what, whether they've been out there for a long time in their season, but some of that back to the basics and that solid education, you know, we we got so far ahead with all this amazing new technology and this and that.

SPEAKER_03: 39:57

AI and yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 39:59

Yeah, yeah, that you know what, it's almost getting a little bit of a little more grounding. I guess that's the word I'm looking for. A little a little more grounding is what people are looking for. And I have to tell you, I see it more and more, you know, and Amanda thinking about the you know, the internet and the internet, I'm finding more and more people are picking up hard copies of the code. Yeah, I'd love to hear that.

SPEAKER_01: 40:21

I was gonna mention that you were talking a minute ago, can't remember what it was, but it that kind of it triggered a thought in my head. But yeah, I think that that we experienced that with COVID. I think that a lot of the industry, you know, the world obviously had a hard time pivoting. I think that was the year, the the word of the year for 2020. And I think for us, I don't think we so much as pivoted in the traditional sense. I think we more just leaned into our audience and we just did what we do best. We just did it a hundred times harder and a hundred times faster during that time period. And our print subscriptions grew. I would say if you look at the line of you know, our subscribers, like there wasn't a dramatic increase in the year of 2020, and they are what kept us going. Our advertisers and the brands that were there, you know, that Dorian kind of hit on that earlier. We didn't get to do a lot of the stuff that we wanted to do in the magazine for our 45th. And a lot of that was because understandably, you know, advertising is going to be one of the first things that people pause during a recession, you know, it's very common. And so that was kind of like a little bit of the shift that we had to do in terms of the the November 2020 issue. But yeah, in in terms of readership print magazines, I mean, it's it's going great. People, I think it's just our industry. I think that we, if you know, if we were a continuing education magazine for technology, yeah, you know, we we'd probably be off of the print and fully digital now. But I think that because we're in such a hands-on personal industry, the print is just always going to be something that they prefer over, you know, flipping the magazine on their their iPhones.

SPEAKER_02: 42:03

Yep, absolutely. All right, so I'm gonna make you guys play a game with me now. But before we do that, is there anything that either of you want to share with our audience that we didn't talk about or that I didn't ask that you'd like to get out there?

SPEAKER_01: 42:18

I think I would just like to say that this 50 years is we again we used this whole hour to talk about dermoscope and to talk about us celebrating. But I think that I just wanted to say just a humongous thank you to absolutely everybody that has ever been involved with Dermoscope, contributed to Dermoscope, invested, you know, with Dermoscope, and and then just even, you know, down to with our employees and Michelle, you just doing everything that you have done for us and been with us over all of these years, especially these last seven have been a huge, huge, huge deal for me. So yeah, that's I think that's how I want to end things, is just by saying it from the bottom of my heart, like a thank you to this entire industry just for allowing Dermoscope just to still continue to be here with all of the aestheticians and to help grow everybody's practices. Yeah, that's awesome. I would also like to add, Michelle. Yes, that her mic is on. As a little side note, yeah, so so whenever Dorian, this was a a ways back, but we're like planning our November episode for the podcast, and I was like, hey, hey, hey, like I want dibs, like I mean, I want to be involved with the November one because I want it to be an anniversary one. I want one, you know, so I told her I said, I want one of our guests for November to be super historic, respected, yeah. Very, you know, first generation. Like I wanted like a really, really good guest for November. And I said, and then as for Michelle's second episode, I want us to be on it and I want to talk about the magazine. And it's like our last little thing. We talk about the party and all that stuff, right? So Dorian says, Okay, yeah, got it. And then it was last week, and she was like, Oh, remember the podcast. And I was like, What podcast? What are you talking about? And then she said all she needed to do was the game. And I said, Dorian, this is not fair for you to be part of the behind the scenes of the game. And so, my I'm remembering now when y'all started and y'all said Evelyn thought that I had the idea. My idea and what I told Evelyn just came to my head was that Dorian and I should be the ones making you play a game because you never have to play one. I'm hearing you talk. I realized that the girls did not follow that serious idea.

SPEAKER_02: 44:32

I'm assuming. I would disconnect right now. Sorry, sorry, my internet went out.

SPEAKER_03: 44:38

And no game for the anniversary episode.

SPEAKER_01: 44:42

All right, go for it. What kind of game are we playing?

SPEAKER_02: 44:45

So um, I've got a whole list of questions. And Amanda, I'm gonna start with you. I'm gonna go to Dorian secondly, and they're quickfire prompts. It all connects to 50th anniversary, but you literally have 15 seconds or less to answer the question. Okay. Okay. All right, Amanda, you're first. You're and I think I even know the answer to this one. I could do this. Your most surreal moment of the golden gala.

SPEAKER_01: 45:07

Uh, being sober the entire time.

SPEAKER_02: 45:10

Well, that was impressive. Congratulations.

unknown: 45:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

Yeah, we tried it on for 2025. It fits me pretty well.

SPEAKER_02: 45:18

Good girl. Dorian. Dorian, one word to describe how the November issue feels.

SPEAKER_03: 45:26

Proud? Proud uh pride?

SPEAKER_02: 45:28

Yes, prideful. Was that a question? Or Amanda, you can only keep one the November issue, the golden gala, or the icon awards.

SPEAKER_01: 45:44

Ooh. Ooh. That's so hard. The well, I mean the gala, of course, because you know, then you get to talk to everybody and hang out with everybody. So yeah, that was and yeah, yep. But they're all great. And by the way, we didn't get to talk about the icon awards at all. No. Where were those in these notes? Okay. So I kind of want to talk about that quickly. I thought it was something fun. This was kind of something else that we did. You look like you own this thing. I mean, come on now. It's timeout. We're going back. Anyway, um, no, I want to talk about the icon awards for a minute because it was something that we kind of did that was really unexpected and not like anything that we've done in the past. And so I'm sure our readers or anybody listening is familiar with our ACA awards. And those are all product, we've been doing that for 11, 12 years now. And, you know, those are all reader, basically they're reader choice awards, aestheticians' choice awards. And so we've been doing that. Great, love it. Um, super fun. We do it every spring. Um, but what for our for our party? I told the girls, I said, I want to do some awards for this party for the gala. I was like, but I don't want it to be these like super heavy, like, oh best eye cream of all time, or groundbreaking mask and treatment. So I told him, I said, I want it to be something more for the brand as a whole, because we don't do that in our ACAs, or I want it to be something very specific for that individual. And so I don't want to go into the details because I don't remember them, but I know that we came up with some really, really great, fun, like Taizo 1 Best Desert Island brand, or something like that. Like we made these really fun things to support and and and feel engaged. And we presented all of those at the anniversary gala, and it was just it was so much fun. So, anyway, now to answer your question, I still choose the gala because I included the icon awards.

SPEAKER_03: 47:39

It is all recapped in the November issue. So, listeners, you you can get the details. We were not gonna leave you hanging.

SPEAKER_02: 47:46

Right. Okay, so Dorian, the most chaotic part of planning anything 50th related, the covers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:56

It's you know, it's it's hard. And I'll also say this for Dorian. I knew what we were asking was gonna be a big thing because, you know, in the publishing world, you it is a very wise decision to keep your editorial and your sales teams completely separate. Otherwise, lots of wires can get crossed in terms of, you know, what you're really there to do. And the sales team is there to promote the brands and the editorial team is there to keep the integrity. And and I knew that by us having these sponsors all year and by offering to do a cover story on them, and you know, that's a couple page article in the magazine, those lines were going to be blurred, and Dorian and her team, they were gonna be getting a little bit more content to be sorting through and collecting and proofing than normal. And so that by itself, the fact that Dorian and her team were able to do so many of these sponsored covers, she should have had like two assistants just for this year because of it. So, yes, I I knew that's exactly what her answer was gonna be. I like the came together.

SPEAKER_02: 49:02

That's because you're so amazing, Dorian.

SPEAKER_03: 49:04

Oh, thank you. That's it. But do you want to keep talking about that or should we just call it we're done?

SPEAKER_02: 49:10

See you later, everybody. All right, a couple more questions. Amanda, a trend or a topic from 1975 that could make a comeback?

SPEAKER_01: 49:19

Hmm. Um that you've heard of. I don't know, maybe a trend or a cut. Well, I mean, is this kind of an e is this me is softball or softball? Whatever. It's too early. Um, I was gonna say, I think, you know, maybe it's just because the lecture I did this weekend, but I my brain is on to how aestheticians need to get back to like the hands-on experience. And I think that our industry has kind of started going more tech and more skin scanners and more hydroderm abrasion type thing, yeah, more machine-based. And and I think that aestheticians in this industry, we need to remember what makes us different and why when AI and robots take over the world in 20 years, like how that's not going to be them taking over aestheticians. And the reason why is because most are natural empaths and most have these connections with their clients, and you have that actual hands-on touch and experience. And so I think that going into 2026 and beyond, I think that that's what aestheticians need to remember and and why technology and all that stuff is great, but we need to get back to the basics, back to 1975 and why we all started. And that is that personal relationship between your client and the aesthetician. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 50:36

Okay. Um, so Dorian, if Thermoscopes 50th were a skincare ingredient, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03: 50:46

It'll have to be below mandalic acid, because it does everything and everyone loves it. And it's one of my favorite ingredients, and it can, yeah, it like makes the product. So yeah, mandalic acid. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 51:00

All right. Dorian, I'm gonna give you this next question and then I'm gonna end with Amanda. Are you ready? Yeah. The biggest we actually pulled it off moment.

SPEAKER_01: 51:12

Do not answer that. I'm just kidding. Um, all right, Amanda, do you want that question? Yes. Um moment, our 50th. I mean, I think that our party and just everything, it was a really big deal. And and, you know, I know everybody, you know, circadia does four parties a year at all the trade shows and everything. And and and and the idea of it, of just throwing a party, yeah, you know, no big deal. But the amount of effort and the amount of attention to detail that these girls put in to be able to take our vision of it and to be able to actually put it in to play and have everybody in the industry see what we were trying to create and it to work and everybody just have fun and to be able to celebrate, blah, blah. I just think the whole thing. I think the the party was just a really big deal. Dermoscope has not done an in-person event in since I've since I've known of it. So that was just a big deal.

SPEAKER_02: 52:11

Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna this last question I'm gonna actually ask for both of you because that from both of you, because I think it might be a little bit different. Um, Dorian, the most sentimental part of creating the anniversary issue.

SPEAKER_03: 52:22

Oh, uh, I wrote like kind of a recap of the Golden Gala. And so one, I never really get to do like large scale writing in the magazine. If I do, it's like an intro here, conclusion here, a little blurb here. But this was it's not, it wasn't a feature article, but it is a longer article. So um obviously we recap like all the you know, the little details and what you know, we wanted to give the reader a feel like that they were walking through the party. But in kind of the conclusion, I started to dip into my sentimental was uh rereading it, I was like, wow, it's just it's so different from when I've started. And you walk into a new job and you don't know who these women are, you don't, you know, you don't you understand the industry, you grasp it, but you don't know the details. And here we are five later, you know, five years later. And me, man, and Becky are kind of our little trio, and like, you know, we've seen each other at you know very highs and we've seen each other at very lows. And that party, we kind of all came together, and it was just kind of like we did it. We we created something new for ourselves that we're proud of, and that it matters. It's not just, you know, oh, well, we think we did a pretty good, at least pat ourselves on the back. Like, no, we saw this whole huge group of people, and it wasn't, it was, you know, everybody from the esthetician that's in the treatment room to the celebrity esthetician who came and of course had to pay her respects because of how much she loves stermascopes. So it was, yeah, definitely that article that I was like, we made it, we've done something. This is this is a big deal. So awesome. Amanda, how about for you?

SPEAKER_01: 53:59

I think probably hearing that. I think that was yeah, I think that was really sweet. I think just even, you know, just seeing how much Dorian has come in the past five years and how much like it has changed dermoscope and how much we have grown. I think, yeah, just the whole year in general is a huge deal. But yeah, that was very sentimental. That was very sweet.

SPEAKER_02: 54:19

I again, Amanda, kudos to you. You've created an amazing team. And that's thanks to the to the leader that you are for all of them. And I I'm just like I said earlier, I'm so proud of you. Thank you. So proud of all of you. And you know what? Super proud to be part of this. I mean, it's been a long time, and I've I've there's never been a moment that I would not want to be a part of Dermoscope and AIA and everything that we do. So thank you for that. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 54:48

No, and thank you. And and like I said a minute ago, but your presence too is just it never goes unnoticed. I appreciate it so much. I love having you on as our podcast host and just your involvement with AIA and everything that we'll be doing with that in 2026. It's just we love having you with us and we love, we love partnering with you. So thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02: 55:07

Was that foreshadowing right there?

SPEAKER_01: 55:08

Oh, yeah. That was you verbally just signing in the next thing you're like.

unknown: 55:13

Done.

SPEAKER_01: 55:15

I got it.

SPEAKER_02: 55:17

All right, ladies. Gotcha, gotcha. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. This has just been a great, a little over an hour together, an hour together. To all of our listeners out there, thank you so much for committing to us, for committing to listening to us. Um, this was the aesthetic report by Dermoscope. We are thrilled to have had all of you here with us, and we'll talk to you real soon. Take care, everybody.

SPEAKER_00: 55:39

Thank you for listening to the aesthetic report. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you'll never miss an episode. If you love the show, leave a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and tell all your SD besties to give us a listen. And don't forget, the education doesn't stop here. The aesthetic report is one of many platforms offered by Dermascope. Visit Dermascope.com for more education and industry news from the Authority on Professional Skin Care. Stay tuned, and we'll see you next time for another episode of the Aesthetic Report.