SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Welcome to the Aesthetic Report, a podcast for skincare professionals who want to grow in their careers by hearing directly from the individuals who have been there, done that, and are paving the future of their industry. Join us for the latest in all things skincare, beauty, wellness, business, and more. From interviews with leading experts to the burning topics on your mind. The aesthetic report starts now.

SPEAKER_00: 0:34

Hi Dermis, welcome to the Aesthetic Report, a podcast by Dermoscope. Thank you for tuning in to the very last interview of 2025 season five. And it's probably a little different than what you were expecting. This recording happened back in October at Face Reality's Acne Summit in Austin, Texas, and it features their CEO, Jeremy Soyney, interviewing our CEO, Amanda Strunk, about the state of the industry. So don't touch that dial, and we'll catch you next year.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

Hello again. And look at this. I don't have to hold a mic this time. This is amazing. It's like a luxury. I mean, I'm so happy to have you here. And I am so thrilled for just this really special segment that we have here. Very honored to have Amanda Strunk with us today. We are celebrating 20 years of acne expertise. And what a better way to mark the moment with somebody who's been shaping the professional skincare conversation for literally decades. Today I have the honor of sitting down with Amanda Strunk. Amanda runs Dermoscope as the executive director and publisher with a legacy behind her and a mission to move the industry forward. As a third generation owner, she took the reins of a decades-old trade journal and transformed it into a modern multi-platform brand that still leads the conversation in skincare today. Amanda has was raised in the treatment room, quite literally, by two working aestheticians, which makes her fluency in this industry unmatched. Since joining Dermoscope in 2005, she's been the brain behind the magazine's digital pivot transformation, launching game-changing platforms to maintain the brand's authority on professional skincare. But she doesn't just follow the trends, she sets the tone. Whether she's curating education, elevating under-the-radar brands, or spotlighting the next generation of aestheticians, her goal is clear: empower professionals, cut through the noise, and raise the bar of education in the aesthetics industry. We'll be diving into industry trends, business insights, maybe even a few spicy takes on what's working and what's not in professional skincare today. And as an added bonus, this is awesome. This segment is going to be recorded and aired on Dermoscope's podcast, The Aesthetic Report. So make a note, if you haven't yet listened to the Aesthetic Report, go subscribe right now and listen to the rich content that now makes up over 130 episodes that have been published. Awesome. Should we get into it? Yes, let's get into it. Welcome. I'm so happy to have you here, Amanda.

SPEAKER_02: 3:09

Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be celebrating Face Reality's 20-year anniversary. It's no small feat. And so congratulations on that. And I think we can all agree that we have a love-hate relationship with acne. And so I'm happy to be here and to celebrate and to try to offer a little bit more education or information so that everybody can walk away with something that they've learned and can implement in their practice.

SPEAKER_01: 3:34

So this is kind of fun for me. Usually when I'm talking to the Dermoscope team, it's um I'm kind of nervous because they're the ones interviewing me. But I feel like I like flip the tables now. This is amazing. I feel like I feel super powerful. This is awesome. Enjoy it. She's like the last time. Um okay. So, Amanda, you've been leading Dermoscope through some wild industry shifts, I think we could say for sure. What's one moment that you made you say, you know what? This is why I do what I do.

SPEAKER_02: 4:00

I think we all want to be a part of something bigger. I think that that's what Dermoscope is for me with this industry. Dermoscope is part of this industry. We've been around since the 70s. We actually are celebrating our 50th anniversary this year with the magazine. And so, yeah, it's that's no small feat to you. So it's really just about for me personally being able to see it come from our minds and like what do we want to talk about and what do we want to focus on and what aestheticians are out there that we can interview and you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever, and be able to take those ideas and then turn them into content in the magazine each month, and then to have the readers absorb that content and then kind of watch it ripple effect through the industry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:46

That's look let's push a little bit deeper on there. 50 years is amazing, by the way. I feel like 20 years is amazing, but at 50, I'm like, that is incredible. What's the secret sauce to staying relevant in an industry that uh it seems to reinvent itself every six months?

SPEAKER_02: 5:00

For sure. The biggest thing is, especially now with social media, and I know we're gonna kind of harp on it for a little bit. Definitely want to come back to that.

SPEAKER_01: 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:10

But I think that with the rise of social media, it's kind of tried to change the game. And I think in our industry, our niche industry of this beauty world, that we kind of can't really, we can't get caught up in the noise of that social media and of the trends. We are here, we are aestheticians, and we are here to change lives and change skin. And we have to remember that that is our mission. What no matter what we're doing in our industry in this industry, that's kind of the goal. And so I think that for Dermoscope, it's not been so much about keeping up with the trends. I think that it's about evolution with intention. And, you know, not just doing a podcast to do a podcast, but doing a podcast because you realize that you can reach another layer or another group, another audience. So I think that that's the biggest takeaway is that you don't just change for the sake of change. We don't change anything in the magazine every year just because I'm bored of that department. In business, you don't change just to change. And I feel like that's where sometimes we go wrong is we see trends and we want to hop on them, and then it kind of ends up changing. And we don't we don't want to do that. We want to stay true to our mission, we want to stay true to our objective in our in our business. And so the industry is gonna change every six months, but I think it's important for the aestheticians to not stay consistent, stay doing what you're doing, and why you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

So it sounds like one of those common threads is being the voice of the aesthetician. Thank you for doing that. And and this is this is nothing new. You know, I feel like at face reality, we're all about community and bringing skincare professionals together. I mean, hence this summit while we're all here today. But I want to push just a little bit deeper because you've been doing this for 50 years, and specifically the Aesthetics International Association, the AIA, has been bringing together aestheticians since 1972 as the very first aesthetistics association. Can you tell us more about the AIA? Um, I want to hear more about that. And and how can everybody here benefit from the AIA today?

SPEAKER_02: 7:18

Okay. I love pitching AIA. So AIA was founded in 1972, and this was all back when aesthetics wasn't really a thing. It was still under that cosmetology umbrella. And so the founder of Dermoscope of AIA, he basically was a cosmetologist, and he used to travel over to Europe every year to do their hair shows and to try to take as much information as he could and then bring it back over here to the States. And so it was really just the start up of this industry. This was before there were, you know, all the separate licensures and everything like that. And so AIA was kind of the original Instagram in a way. It was the original hub, the original community, and it is how people like Laura and Dr. Fulton kind of got together, you know, is by these trade shows and by these summits and buy these types of things. And AIA was a really big piece of that puzzle in aesthetics back in the 70s and early 80s of kind of getting that off the ground.

SPEAKER_01: 8:19

Okay. So everybody go jot down a note, AIA. Go look it up, go check it out. It's as relevant today as it was 53 years ago. So all right, so Amanda, you're a third generation publisher. Amazing. What was it like growing up in an industry? And you know, do you have maybe a favorite story or memory to share growing up in this industry?

SPEAKER_02: 8:37

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely different. I have a very different upbringing that I think most kids, I mean, I don't know. A lot of people I think that have parents that are business owners, you have a little bit of a different upbringing as a kid. And so obviously I fell into that boat, but I spent a lot of my youth kind of back at these stages and talking, and and what was always really cool for me was getting to kind of see the presenters and you know, these big names in our industry, and just being able to kind of chat with them before stage and back there and kind of see like they're all nervous, they're all nervous before they get on stage. It doesn't matter if it's true, Fulton or Christine Heathman or Michael Bugleese, like everybody is just back there, you know, kind of. And so it's like it kind of peels back a little bit and realize like we're all human, we're all here for a common goal. And so that that was kind of my my upbringing behind the stage.

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

Amazing. I I definitely feel that. I always get a little bit nervous up here. So doesn't try to channel it into excitement.

SPEAKER_05: 9:38

So exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 9:39

Um okay, so let's shift gears a little bit. I want to dig a little bit deeper into the industry and some of the trends that we're seeing. Let's talk celebrity brands. Celebrity brands, I feel like it's you know, for so many years they were so popular, but we seem to be seeing a decline in celebrity brands. What do you think the reason is for that change?

SPEAKER_02: 9:57

Well, I think consumers are getting savbier. And I think that when the celebrity skincare lines, like they started popping up and everybody was like, oh, you know, if Justin Bieber's doing, or I don't know, is doing this, then you know, like I gotta try it.

SPEAKER_01: 10:12

And then, you know, I think Bieber or Kardashian in there somewhere, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:16

They're starting to to realize, like, just because it's got a pretty face or pretty bottles and pretty packaging doesn't mean that it's going to work. And again, now with the rise of the social media misinformation is what I like to call it, is it makes things very confusing for consumers. And so I think they're seeing the celebrities are just doing it just. I mean, I feel like in the 80s and 90s the whole celebrity thing was all about perfumes. Everybody had their own perfume, and now I think they're just moving over to skincare. So I think there's a decline. I don't see it going away completely, but definitely a decline, and I think that it's warranted.

SPEAKER_01: 10:54

Yeah, and so this is interesting. Do you think that clinicals are a part of this? And you know, you mentioned consumers, clients becoming savvier. Um, we started investing much heavier into clinicals a few years ago. I think I sensed the same thing around the importance of it. But how do you see that relationship between this and the importance of, you know, clinical studies, clinically proven, clinically backed brands?

SPEAKER_02: 11:16

Yeah, no, I think that that's the difference. I think that that is very important, especially in our industry, it being the professional industry. Again, we're not over on the consumer side of beauty and health and wellness and all that. So I think that that is what can help encourage and empower aestheticians by having that clinical results and the data and to be able to back that and to show that to your clients. I think it's very important.

SPEAKER_01: 11:43

Yeah, I I I totally agree. I I and I think it's more than just before and afters. I think it's truly, you know, third-party backed clinical research at this point.

SPEAKER_02: 11:51

I agree.

SPEAKER_01: 11:52

Okay, so let's talk about personalization. I feel like Face Reality has been a brand that you know that Laura and Pat championed personalization. It's what our company was founded on. But it's interesting, you know, AI is evolving. You know, we're starting to see that. That's already been mentioned today. It's, you know, skin scans. It's all becoming a part of what we're doing. What's your take on how personalization is evolving and you know, specifically how it relates to the success of aestheticians?

SPEAKER_02: 12:20

Well, I think personalization is what makes your clients keep coming back to you. I think that personalization is what they're never gonna get from Chat GBT telling them, you know, their own skincare line. I mean, I don't the when the when I heard that consumers are starting to just ask chat, tell them what's wrong with my skin and I have acne, and then chat gives this whole thing and it's like, oh, what the f- you know, what's going on? So it's like, no. So aestheticians, again, I think that this personalization, like that's what makes you stand out from them just searching it online and then buying their stuff from Ulta and cutting you out. Personalization, I think, should be extremely important. It should be a mainstay, it should be a priority. I think that AI and technology helps, and I definitely see it having a place in your world. But I don't think that we need to lean too heavily on it. I think aesthetics at its root, and it's always been this way, is that connection with your client and the hands-on, it's that personal time and that personal touch. I mean, everybody always says that their hairdressers and aestheticians are like their therapist, you know what I mean? Whether that's true or not, I think that that's kind of the mentality that consumers are in. They trust you and they trust you with their skin. And the more you can personalize that, and still using AI and technology and all that, that's all great, but just making sure that you're staying true to what makes you different, and that is that you are a person, you are not AI, you have hands, you have that connection, you are offering personal results.

SPEAKER_01: 14:02

I I yeah, I couldn't agree more, and I feel like that's what keeps, you know, that higher level of personalization. I feel like there's a direct correlation to client retention. Honestly, like the more you can personalize your approach for everybody and see that person, make sure that that person is seen as an individual, not as a case study. That's what keeps them coming back. It's interesting, you know, we're starting to use AI more within face reality. And I the way I think about it is almost more as a thought partner. It's not a replacement, right? It's a it's a thought partner. How do we leverage AI to help make me better, help make us better, but as a partner, not as a substitute.

SPEAKER_02: 14:40

Right. Yes, I don't think that we should ever be relying on it so much to where it is actually replacing certain things, but I think that it is a great tool to be able to bounce ideas off of or create checklists. That's what I love to use it for, you know, make sure you're not missing anything. Am I not thinking like what? And that's what if we're talking about chat, that's the one thing I always say whenever it's talking, and then at the end, my last question is always, what are you not telling me? And then it, you you will be surprised what it is not telling you.

SPEAKER_01: 15:08

That's a good prompt. I like it. I like that. Okay, I'm gonna um I'm gonna make a note. Okay, so we were talking recently, and one of the one of the things that stuck out from when we were chatting recently is you used the term burn uh sort of burnout around the messaging around six-figure aesthetician. If that's the turn, what's it moving toward?

SPEAKER_02: 15:28

I think we I I'm gonna kind of go back a little bit to the personalization thing. I think that that's where the difference is. That's that's really what is going to change for you as an aesthetician.

SPEAKER_01: 15:42

Yeah, I like that. Okay. Let's push harder on social media a little bit. I wanna I want to come back to social media. I've seen a rise in utilizing social media for public shaming, for cyberbullying. I've been personally a topic in a not positive way in certain aesthetics websites, and so it's personal for me. Have you seen this? And how do you think about that? Like, uh, what do you think that causes? And how do we get this back to a more collaborative place?

SPEAKER_02: 16:10

What kind of started as like this hustle and you know, and then it kind of led to the burnout from your previous question, and then now we're you're moving into social media, and I think that while social media was so helpful in terms of growing your business and growing your message and everything, there's it's always a double-edged sword. And I think that we are just now in a generation of people that feel very comfortable speaking their mind on social media when you would never do it face to face, or if you did do it face to face, it would, you know, it would happen a little bit differently. And so I think that people have honestly gotten a little too comfortable with that. And I think at the end of the day, that's what makes events like this so important, is because you're really building a community and you're growing together and you're networking and you're collaborating, and you can do that on social media, but you can never do it like how you can do it here. Like this can never be replicated. Like the energy and the vibe from today, you're not gonna get that from just reading a blog about acne. You know what I mean? So I think that's kind of the thing with social media. You like, what are we gonna do about it? I think we need to get off of it and get back in here. Yeah. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_01: 17:31

Yeah, what one of the things I talk about a lot is you know, it's a piece of advice that my wife gave me years ago. I was I was having this conversation with her, and she looked at me and she was she was sort of annoyed. She was like, You're not assuming positive intent here, pal. And she might not have used those words exactly, but she clearly said, You are not assuming positive intent.

SPEAKER_05: 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:50

Maybe not the pal. That's one that stuck with me. You know, I know that our employees, this is one that is another one of those terms I talk about a lot, is I feel like that goes a long way. Um, you know, especially around this topic in particular, is you know, how do we get back to that place where we're just assuming positive intent? Let's let's start from a place where we believe that that person is intending to do the right thing. The benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_02: 18:14

Yeah, the benefit of the doubt. And and honestly, I mean, I think that all of that, once you start getting into that negativity, like it impacts you, it affects you. And you want to sit there and say that, you know, like going off on somebody or even just reading comments like that. I personally have gone through where I'm off social media completely unless I have to approve something or look at, you know, whatever. Because I've just found myself, and I think this is true for most people, but everybody's got that energy flowing, everybody's got, you know, and don't mess with my cheat, you know, like don't mess with it. And I just think that again, like the social media is starting to do that, and it's kind of changing everybody's mentalities. I feel like everybody's getting a little bit more like skeptical, and they don't trust anything anymore because of AI. Because now I don't know if that thing really happened that I just saw because who knows? Who knows anymore? You can't trust anybody, and that's not a healthy mindset for us to have as humans like working together, just never being able to trust anything that you ever see. Again, this all leads back to social media, technology, and I think the ways that it harms us.

SPEAKER_05: 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:22

So again, I think it all kind of leads back to community building, collaborating, and doing that with like-minded individuals.

SPEAKER_01: 19:29

Yeah. Okay, so if if that's where we are in the state of social media, what's next? Like if you had to bet on, you know, one thing that will define aesthetics moving forward these next five years, what what would it be?

SPEAKER_02: 19:44

Well, I think it's I think it's gonna be a lot of AI and technology that's gonna be integrated into the businesses. I mean, I I really do think that. I I think there's gonna be a more layered approach to skincare. That's how I should say it. I think that we're gonna have Aesthetics, and I think that we're going to start layering in more wellness and technology driven. And I think that's what the next five years is going to show.

SPEAKER_01: 20:11

Yeah, I I I agree. Let's go a little bit deeper on that. So I think that we're seeing more aestheticians that are talking about overall wellness. I think that's a massive trend. Mental health, nutrition, stress. Do you think that this is a passing trend, or do you think it's more a more permanent shift in how professionals are approaching skincare? And most importantly, what's the impact on the solo esthetician around this whole discussion?

SPEAKER_02: 20:35

Great, positive. It's not a trend. It's definitely a shift. And I think it's here to stay. I think that it's insanely positive for solos, whether you're a solo or you're more on the med spa or whatever. I think that it's all positive. I think that us integrating it gives the the consumer, I think it just gives them a more well-rounded and understanding approach, especially with skincare, especially with acne, you know, and this is internal and this it just makes sense to talk about nutrition. It makes sense to talk about these other things. Now I know that, you know, different states and you know you have to be careful about what you're actually recommending and things like that, but no, I think that it's all positive. I think it's positive for the solos too.

SPEAKER_01: 21:20

I think it's positive for face reality. I think it's positive for our acne experts, actually. I mean, we have a history, I think, of approaching acne extremely holistically. You know, it's not a step one, two, three, it's personalized for every person, and it goes deep into all of these things, you know, wellness, you know, nutrition, health. And I I feel like, you know, one of the analogies that I've heard described is it's almost like we're approaching education, like, how can we be a detective? How do we get to that root cause of what's causing that person's acne, what's triggering it so that we can put them in charge. And, you know, it's different for everybody. And so I feel like we're actually really well equipped to take on what I see as a massive trend. But let's embrace it, right? And you know, let's embrace what that is and go even deeper and recognize that this um, you know, overall I think approach to wellness is something that our clients are seeking out from us.

SPEAKER_02: 22:08

And I think that the aestheticians that can embrace that while also maintaining, again, your connection, your hands-on treatments, then I think those are the aestheticians that are going to grow the most over the next five years.

SPEAKER_01: 22:21

Yeah, I I I totally agree. Okay, so you're passionate about education, we are too. Let's let's talk education a little bit. How do you think consumers slash clients are valuing license expertise compared to social media advice?

SPEAKER_02: 22:36

Yeah, again, it it's it's hard because where are they getting their skincare advice? Like they're getting it from TikTok, they're getting it from Google or chat. That we don't want that. We don't want that at all. So I think that consumers are getting, like I said earlier, they are getting more savvy. They are starting to understand, like, hey, I need to focus on my skincare, it's not just my hair and you know, makeup. So consumers are getting smarter and they're starting to figure out like what is going on in this world of skincare. And we've been around for a long time, and there is this whole professional side, and I do need to be going and seeing an aesthetician, and you know, so they're getting smarter, but at the same time, the information that they're consuming is misinformation. Something that something went viral that somebody, you know, somebody slugged their skincare, and then that went viral, and then everybody's like, oh, everybody has to slug, you know, and all this stuff. And so I think that the misinformation thing is a really big piece that we have to maintain the narrative and to teach the consumers that is what we have to do.

SPEAKER_01: 23:43

Yeah, I feel like TikTok's been a mix mixed blessing for this entire room, honestly. You know, even a few years ago in the middle of COVID, as TikTok started ramping up, I'm convinced that more people were following TikTok advice because we saw way more people coming into our clinic, and I know in talking with many of you, it was the same thing that they were coming in with compromise barriers. Oh, yeah. And honestly, it was I I credit TikTok with inspiring us to develop all of our barrier care products. Our creamy cleanser, our hydro remedy, our gel cream now. I actually credit this from TikTok, and so it's been a bit of a mixed blessing.

SPEAKER_02: 24:24

Okay, well, I was saying those are all my best. What I use from Face Reality is that barrier repair side of it because it is so important, and so many of us have damaged our barriers over the years not realizing what's going on. I mean, when I say us, I mean the consumers. Definitely not aestheticians. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01: 24:40

How do we keep it credible though? Like if if if TikTok has been the trend, you know, it's its podcasts I think are still very relevant. You know, what's next? And how do we how do we keep that level of credibility? It's not as easy as just saying, oh, we don't like TikTok, right? How do we lead this conversation so that we can get that good education all the way to end clients?

SPEAKER_02: 24:59

Aaron Powell You should find a magazine that really focuses it on continuing education. No, I think I think it I also I I don't want to hate on TikTok and social media completely. Like as an aesthetician, it is still so valuable for you to be on there because again, it's your voice that's making the difference to the consumers. Because if you're not on TikTok and you're not telling everybody the truth about you need sunscreen no matter what, and then you've got these influence over here saying, I don't ever use sunscreen, blah, blah, blah. If y'all aren't on there, then all they're gonna hear is the influencer stuff. Right. You know what I mean? So it's very important because I'm not saying right to get the slides on all things. No, y'all still need to be on TikTok.

SPEAKER_04: 25:48

Dermoscope needs to be to stay informed on the basic aesthetics on the environment, which memes, review posts, giveaways, holds, yeah, plenty of opportunities to be featured in the magazine. Right.

SPEAKER_02: 25:59

And to Instagram and follow up at dermoscope to get the quality content you have to do. But I definitely think to answer your original question, I think what we're gonna see a little bit of a shift is is more shorter content. I mean, at the end of the day, I think everybody is just way too busy, you know. We live 50-hour lives in a 24-hour time span. And so I think where we're gonna see it kind of shift is more short curated content, but still clinically backed, still lots of education, just just more, you know, fine-tuned.

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

Well, we've got plenty of content that we can all plug into uh to that short content, so that works for us. So, from your perspective, what are aestheticians doing for aestheticians that are doing well, what are they doing to grow their business? And where do you see literally untapped opportunities for this room?

SPEAKER_02: 27:35

From what I see in our industry, I think y'all are doing a fantastic job owning your individuality, your uniqueness, kind of what makes you separate from the aesthetician down the street. And I think that there has been, you know, because again, social media, all the rise. It seemed like, remember when social media and on Instagram it got really, really popular for your grid to be like all the same color and to alternate the this and that, and you just had to do it. You had to do it, otherwise your page wasn't cool and all that kind of stuff. So I think that it's kind of it's shifting away a little bit from that, obviously, and we're focusing more on being here in person, we're doing all of this type of stuff, but I think at the end of the day, what we need to be focusing on is really how we can reach the consumers on a different level. So, again, before what y'all were doing really great at is you were owning it, you decided that you wanted to be the more the sound bowls and the chakras and this that you were your spa was gonna go more on this path. And so that's how you curated your content on Instagram, that's how you did it and everything. And I think that where we have an untapped potential is really taking it a step further and not just talking to your client and doing it that way, but I think finding local partners. And I know this is it's not new information, like you know, it's been forever, but it's taking your relationships to similar practices, you know. So if down the street there's an IV bar, you need to go in and try to create a relationship with them and say, hey man, like if you refer your guys to me, then I'll you work you barter it, you work out an agreement, you work out a deal. And I think that that is probably the biggest untapped potential that you have as an esthetician is by growing your network out, not just up, you know, with the clients. You don't need a million clients, and that's all you're focusing on. You need to kind of branch out this way too, and then keep growing it.

SPEAKER_01: 29:41

I I like that, and it's it's going back to Laura Cooksie. You channel your inner Laura Cooksie and start bartering.

SPEAKER_03: 29:48

Yep. Yep, I second that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:50

No, I I no, in all seriousness, I th I think that that's really good advice. So speaking of which, I think this is um a perfect setup here. So 15 years ago, I feel like a derm office standalone, you had a derm that was on staff, and that's they focused on traditional dermatology issues. There's a lot of blurring that's happening, you know, today and has happened over this last 15 years. There's a lot of channel blurring that's happening. Med spas, derm offices, plastic surgeon offices, they're all offering aesthetic services at this point. What does this mean? What's the impact for the solo aesthetician who's trying to stand out?

SPEAKER_02: 30:27

Okay. So again, I think this is consumer awareness a little bit, right? Like, I'm sure everybody at one point has been asked, like, what's an what's an aesthetician? You mean like a and then they think you're an anesthesiologist, right? Yeah. Uh so that I feel like that's kind of died down. Most people at least have heard of the term now, aesthetician. Like, again, we're not in the 90s anymore, so we've grown on that level. But still, I talk to so many people, and I, you know, I say, Well, do you have an aesthetician? They go, Well, no, no, no, I don't, I don't, I have a dermatologist, you know, and they just blow me off. And it's like, that is offensive. But I tell, you know, and I have to explain to them like dermatologists, they fix skin diseases, they fix problems. Aestheticians, we're into skin health. We are here to keep the skin healthy. It's a preventative maintenance. It's, you know, the consumers need to know the difference. And I think it can be very positive, them coming by them, you know, by the dermatologists and the more med spas and then kind of crossing over into more of our side of the industry, I view it as positive because at the end of the day, all it does is raise the bar of education because these derms and these med spas, they're gonna come in, they're gonna come in with the doctors and the PAs and all this stuff, and and and it's only going to raise the bar for all aestheticians, which is what we want.

SPEAKER_01: 31:55

I I love that. So, given the embarrassingly low percentage of people that are still seeing an aesthetician regularly, though, how can our industry work together to help on this front? You know, educating the on the importance of seeing an esthetician regardless of the skincare concern. I mean, again, this strikes me just as a massive opportunity where there's an obligation for all of us to how do we make this better?

SPEAKER_02: 32:22

I think we have to have a unified message. I think that kind of what I was talking about before, I think it kind of lends to that. I think that if consumers aren't really still understanding that they need to be seeing an aesthetician and their makeup's gonna go on even better if they have the healthy skin underneath it, and you know, all this stuff, it needs to be a unified message. And I think that that's where we're gonna see the most change and the most growth is it starts on the local level and it kind of works its way up. It works its way up to the brands and the magazines and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 32:55

Yeah. Okay. Let's touch on a different topic. And this this is um getting it as spicy. Maybe not for you, but it is for me. So it's the topic of retail brands expanding into or aesthetician brands expanding into retail. I don't want to um and I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. And I want to put out to be perfectly clear, we're not going into Ulta as much as for all of the posts that we see on Facebook. Um it continues to floor me how you know, like once a month somebody posts that face reality, they heard, they heard that face reality is going into Ulta, and then there's like a hundred posts that are like, I'm never, yeah, I'm never even thinking about face reality ever again. So you always hear everything, but hopefully this is abundantly obvious when you hear about sort of our vision going forward about how what a terrible decision that would be. Yet, brands do it. And I I've got it, I've got I just I have to say, I truly don't understand it. And my opinion hasn't changed on this. I I I recognize this from the time that I got here. I I I have not changed my opinion on this. I don't understand it. So I I guess from your perspective, is it a winning strategy for brands to go into retail? Like just help me out here. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:10

So yeah, I remember when Murad did this. Does anybody else remember back in the yeah 90s? Murad was the first professional grade, professional-only skincare brand. And he decided he was going to start doing infomercials. But you remember back when everybody had real TV? And they tried it and they did it, and they were extremely successful. I mean, huge growth, huge success. I think the difference is they never really tried to come back and go professional or to really kind of keep their foot on both sides. And so that was a strategy, and it's obviously worked for Murad. I think that there's other brands in the industry that have then tried to kind of follow that and follow that method, only to realize that they did it wrong. And I'll kind of go into how I feel about what's wrong. But and so they try to jump back into the professional now, and as you can, if you know what I'm talking about, you can see they're having a hard time getting that traction back because all the aestheticians are mad, you know, and basically like you left us and you went and tried to go consumer and it didn't work out for you, and so now you're back trying to talk to us, and you know, no, you know, you get you kind of get burned, and so you don't. And I think that that's reasonable for an aesthetician to feel that way about a brand that decides to go consumer and leave you. I mean, that's basically what's going on for you to carry face reality and then face reality to be like, okay, yeah, bye. No, we're gonna go consumer now. And then you're sitting here and you're like, well, I've spent thousands and years of education and research and all this for face reality, and now they can just my clients can just buy it at Ulta. Like, that's not fair. That's not, you know, that's how a majority of aestheticians feel. And I think that finding the sweet spot between that double-edged sword, I think, is taking the aesthetician with the brand. So I think that as long as brands decide to go consumer, but they're going to take those aestheticians that built it and take them with them to consumer. And by that I mean, hey, we're gonna go consumer or we're gonna start reaching the consumer market, but this is how we're gonna ensure that you will still be getting the products or we will still be using blah blah blah, and consumer is gonna be 50% more in the price, so they'll still want to come to you. There's something that has to be done between the brand and the aesthetician and that relationship. And as long as that is solid when they go consumer, it has worked occasionally in the past. I don't think that it's the best thing to do personally. I wouldn't I that wasn't your question. What was your question?

SPEAKER_01: 36:47

I feel like you're being too nice. I like I just I don't understand it. I like I'm insulted um just by you know the even the idea of these brands with the years and years of replacement. I think so too.

SPEAKER_02: 36:56

I am definitely on that side. I again I've been in this industry over 20 years and I have seen it. And I guess I just don't get it. If if you're a skincare brand and you want to go play within the big pond of the you know consumers, then go do that. But you came professional, you had a mission as a brand, like you wanted to change people's lives. You wanted to change people's lives, and you did it, and you've grown, and look how amazing and you know how everything is. And so I just I just don't see how doing that, building the relationship with all the aestheticians and the accounts, and then basically leaving them in the dust once you get to your a different success level. To me, it just seems like it would piss a lot of people off.

SPEAKER_01: 37:41

Well, I feel like it, yeah, yes, yes. I mean, I feel like not only does it undermine this room or for whatever brand that is, but I also actually feel like it undermines the entire brand proposition. It dumbs it down to the point to say that this is such a simple proposition that you're able to go self-diagnose whatever it is that you need. And that's the entire point of a professional brand is that it's it's more complicated than that for any skincare condition, not just acne, but especially for acne. You know, what we do is it's it's very complex and and it and it gets to the heart of you know, needing to recognize that every single person's an individual and they need help with their skin. And so if only it was that easy, right?

SPEAKER_02: 38:22

If only let's just make it that easy and then we'll be done.

SPEAKER_01: 38:25

There wouldn't be 50 million people a year, you know, with acne. Right. Yep. Okay. Well, I've got a personal request is next time this topic pops up on our Facebook page, will you please like pop in there and be like, trust me, they're not going into Ulta.

SPEAKER_02: 38:41

Well, tell them to go listen to the aesthetic report and they'll hear it straight from Jeremy that y'all aren't going.

unknown: 38:46

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01: 38:46

There you go. Perfect. Well, I mean, again, so so this goes back to why I even talked earlier about those guiding principles. Because if if we hold true that skincare should not be self-diagnosed, how can you go into Ulta? How can you go into retail? How can you go into expanded e-commerce? How can you go buy actives online without seeing somebody to have that guidance? It completely contradicts that entire approach to what we do. And so again, that's why I talk about those guiding principles because it makes those day-to-day decisions very easy to say, no, that would be a that would be a bad decision. So sorry, I had to jump in my soapbox there for a second.

SPEAKER_02: 39:24

Yeah, and it just reminded me, I think that also a lot of consumers with the rise of social media, all the DIY stuff started popping back up again, you know, and everybody was trying to do all this DIY. So I think, especially during COVID, I think that's kind of when it all started. Everybody's trying to do DIY stuff and all of this. And from there it kind of grew to them then just like having an obsession with skincare and kind of just loving it. And then they start getting into it and finding the professional products and finding what's really going on. And then I have seen where they get their hands on acids and peels and things. That they just have no business doing. Consumers don't have any business having a professional strength peel and them doing it on themselves. And there's a reason that there's a trade for us and a school and all of that. So yeah, I just the whole idea of it is bad. Bad, bad, bad.

SPEAKER_01: 40:16

I guess it's good for business with our barrier repair products, right?

SPEAKER_03: 40:19

Yes. Screw up your skin, come see us.

SPEAKER_01: 40:23

So before we finish up here, I know that in the aesthetic report, it would not be an episode if we didn't go through a series of just like of quick questions, right? So usually you guys are the ones asking these questions, but I'm gonna do some quick fire questions on on you if that's okay.

SPEAKER_02: 40:39

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I will say I'm always uh whenever we came up with the idea for the aesthetic report, I told myself, well, we need like segments, you know, that way like people get used to it. So I always want this is the intro, and I I think we should do a game at every out like on the outro, like with every guest that we have. You know, because what sounds more fun than putting people like these brands and CEOs on the hot seat and making them do a game that's silly. So yeah, no, I see what you're I see.

SPEAKER_01: 41:07

I see what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02: 41:08

But it is fun listening to it. I mean, I always enjoy listening to it, you know, you know, always get some sort of random information that you would never know about Laura if you hadn't heard her desert island sunscreen question.

SPEAKER_01: 41:20

Well, let's start with that one. So desert island with one product and one aesthetician. Who is it and what is it?

SPEAKER_02: 41:29

Okay, well, I'm in my aesthetician, of course, because who knows my skin better than my aesthetician? So I'd be taking her.

SPEAKER_05: 41:36

So who's that?

SPEAKER_02: 41:36

That's Elizabeth Brazier in Dallas. She's actually one of our in-house aestheticians. Yeah, and I love her to death. So that's who I would be taking with me, just for the aesthetics.

SPEAKER_01: 41:46

What did you say the product is?

SPEAKER_02: 41:47

Something barrier repaired, definitely, because I'm obviously going to be on the beach and sunscreen answer was already taken, so then I will fix all of that with the barrier repair.

SPEAKER_01: 41:56

I like it. Okay. If you weren't in skincare, what would you be doing? I guess besides winning at trivy games like this.

SPEAKER_02: 42:05

Uh well, besides being a mom, I would probably do something in interior design. I've always kind of loved that. I'm a little OCD. So to me, and it's kind of no different than the magazine. It's starting with something kind of fresh and then seeing what you can create. So maybe something like that.

SPEAKER_01: 42:23

No, that's interesting. I talked to somebody last night in the room here that um started off an interior design and has come over to that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 42:30

Well, if I ever retire, y'all know where I'll be.

SPEAKER_01: 42:32

There we go. Okay. What's the weirdest, you you come across a lot of these. What's the weirdest skincare trend that you've seen that actually works?

SPEAKER_02: 42:39

Weirdest skincare trend. See, there's such a tricky line between trend and you know, fad and all of that stuff. I'm gonna go with gua sha, cold, like the cold rolling, all of that. Everything that's like MLD. I mean, we don't think it's weird, we think it's like amazing and perfect, and because it is, but a lot of I think my friends and people I talk to, they've always been so surprised whenever you know I whip out like a roller or a goua shaw and all that, and they're like, there's no way that works.

SPEAKER_01: 43:07

I'm like, Well, I say why stop there? Why not just go all the way to get a glacial treatment and get the full uh the full the full cold treatment, right? Okay, I'm gonna give you a total softball on this one. What is one thing that every person in this room could do to support Dermoscope?

SPEAKER_02: 43:22

Okay, well, I would say, I mean, of course, y'all are all already subscribed and know about Dermoscope, so I would, you know, obviously, uh I would say whenever you read the magazine, take one piece of information from it and implement it into your practice. In I think just in culture in general, in in life, I think that there's so much information. We're constantly, you have so much access to information, and our magazine is no different. But I think what a lot of people do and a lot of professionals do is they, oh, I read that book, oh, I read that marketing book, oh, but did you do anything with it? Like, did you do anything with the information and the knowledge that you learned? So that's what I would say. If everybody could take one piece of information that they learn from Dermoscope every month and implement it into their practice, the industry will raise its bar of education.

SPEAKER_01: 44:13

And they'll get just a little bit better every day. See how that works? All right, perfect. So subscribe to Dermoscope, pick one thing, put it to work, and before you know it, you're gonna be 37 times 37 times better. Okay, what's your favorite guilty pleasure skincare product?

SPEAKER_02: 44:27

Guilty pleasure skincare product.

SPEAKER_01: 44:29

Maybe it's overpriced, maybe it's expensive, but you know what? You're like, I'm using it anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 44:35

I'll say my guilty pleasure is that I don't know the prices of skincare because I am very, very fortunate to have a job where I get sent products constantly to be trying and testing out. But I do remember I had taken home a product to my boyfriend and I said, Hey, like you should use this and blah, blah, blah, it'll really help. And you know, whatever. And four weeks later, six weeks later, he's like, Oh my gosh, that was amazing. Give me some more of that. And I was like, Well, that's the thing. Like, you know, they had just sent it in, so there's no more, you're gonna have to go buy it. And then I he was like, Yeah, no problem, I'll go buy it. He comes back and he's like, That's$200. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I figured. So that's probably my guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_01: 45:20

So, do you what was the product?

SPEAKER_02: 45:21

All of them. I test all of them and I love all of them. That's my guilty pleasure, is that I I actively am recognizing that I am not doing the best with my skin by trying so many different things because it does harm my barrier, obviously. Um, but it's part of the job.

SPEAKER_01: 45:38

See, I knew you weren't gonna pick a face reality product because our products, our products are underpriced, right? So I'm like, okay, that that eliminates all of it.

SPEAKER_02: 45:45

Um, okay, so face reality, I will say when I was going through my divorce, I had like, I don't know if y'all had seen me a couple years ago, but I mean I had a lot of acne. And I had tried several other brands, and it would work for a little bit, but it would always kind of come up. And back then I didn't realize that it was, you know, stress. But when I started with the 8% Mandelic, I mean, it was a few weeks, and I was like, oh my god, I can't believe for years I've been dealing with this. And yeah, so that 8%, and then now I'm down to the five, and yeah, but I love it. So that's my favorite face railroad product.

SPEAKER_01: 46:20

The Mandelic's amazing. I've got to I've got to admit, my guilty pleasures, I will put Mandelic 15 on once or twice a week at night. There's a recording this. Um I wake up the next morning. Oh, we're gonna transform skin. So all right, cut that part from the video. Okay, if aestheticians rule the world, what do you think would improve the most?

SPEAKER_02: 46:42

Well, if aestheticians ran the world, then I think y'all's first like order of business would be to have mandatory sunscreen. I think that y'all would probably start making police officers hand out tickets if there wasn't sunscreen. So I think if aestheticians ruled the world, then uh every everybody would be beautiful, healthy skin.

SPEAKER_01: 47:02

Okay, and it starts with sunscreen. It starts with sunscreen. I bet there's a lot of nodding heads out there. If you had the opportunity to swap jobs with somebody in the skincare industry for one week, who would it be?

SPEAKER_03: 47:13

Patrick, because it sounds like he has it sounds like he has a really fun week.

SPEAKER_01: 47:18

That's true.

SPEAKER_03: 47:19

We get to play a lot of pickleball.

SPEAKER_01: 47:21

What's one thing that you wish astitutions knew more about publishing?

SPEAKER_02: 47:25

One thing I would say it's not as unrealistic as people think to get published and to get in a magazine. In any magazine, national, international, local news, it's not as hard as you think it is, and it's not this huge, mystical, like, you know, Hollywood thing. Uh, it's very, very realistic. If you set that as a goal, if you say, hey, I want to be on the cover of Dermoscope magazine in five years. Like with any goals, you you start with your goal and you work backwards, you figure out how is this gonna take. Like, you know, maybe it's not the cover, maybe it's just you want to start contributing or you want to be a writer, or like you want to show your education, you want to show your before and afters, you can reach out to these magazines and you can ask us, and you just be like, hey, I've got this wild, crazy story, and you wouldn't have believed you know, me from five years ago to me now, and you know, maybe your audience might find this interesting. And the answer is always yes. Like, that's what makes Dermoscope, I feel like, a little bit different in this industry than some of the others, is that we want to focus on the aesthetician and highlighting you. We don't want to be putting celebrities on our covers. We wanted to be putting real people that represent us.

SPEAKER_01: 48:40

All right, so ask asking for a friend.

SPEAKER_02: 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 48:42

Let's suppose that there was somebody that wanted to be in Dermascope. In some way, asking for a friend. Um, how would that person go about um even more specifically, like just having some sort of a presence at some point in um in Dermoscope?

SPEAKER_02: 48:55

Just reach out to us and our social media team, you know, we're all obviously on Instagram and everything. So just DM us and then our social team will put you in the right contact with the right person, and then you just tell them, hey, I how do I get featured? I'd like to be in your face havens department, I'd like to be on your cover, I'd like to be one of your 50 ambassadors, I'd like this. Just speak up, let your voice be heard, and that is what we are here for. And so, yeah, we'll connect you to the right people.

SPEAKER_01: 49:24

Okay, you're gonna have a line like out down the hallway here in just a few minutes at the Dermascale table. So, okay. Um, so last question.

SPEAKER_03: 49:32

Go get ready, Evelyn.

SPEAKER_01: 49:33

All right, last question. In one sentence, best business advice for this room.

unknown: 49:42

Best business advice.

SPEAKER_02: 49:43

One sentence? Okay, there's lots of commas. Okay, so basically, I think aestheticians, you get into this. I'm I'm actually gonna do one sentence. You get into this because you want to heal and change lives and heal skin. I think what a lot of aestheticians are comma. Yeah, I was an editor, so I'm so I'm saying on top of this. So I think what a lot of aestheticians forget is that you're still running a business and it is important to focus on the business just as much as you focus on skin and acne. You know, you need business classes, you need business courses, you need to know your EIN and your blah blah blah blah blah. Done.

SPEAKER_01: 50:31

Amazing. I I love this conversation. This this was so fun. Um I feel like I'm watching this timer in front of me. I feel like it was on speed dialogue. Yeah, that wasn't for us though. That's for the next one. That went way too fast. Yeah, this was um this was fun. Um, you know, I hope for all of you this was helpful. I hope that this sparked some ideas that you can take away for your business. I hope that it challenged some assumptions and reminded you why we all do what we do. Let's keep pushing the industry forward together. Let's lock arms, let's make it happen. And what I my my request of this room is please make a point of spending some time with the Dermoscope team on site. You might happen to mention that you have an interest in being in the magazine at some point or not, but please uh make some time to spend some time with this amazing team. Thank you for everything that you and the Dermoscope team do. You guys are absolutely fabulous. We love you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04: 51:30

Thank you. Thank y'all. Thank you for listening to the Aesthetic Report. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you'll never miss an episode. If you love the show, leave a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and tell all your SD besties to give us a listen. And don't forget, the education doesn't stop here. The Aesthetic Report is one of many platforms offered by Dermoscope. Visit Dermascope.com for more education and industry news from the Authority on Professional Skin Care. Stay tuned, and we'll see you next time for another episode of the Aesthetic Report.